The Rock Metal Podcast: Finding Your Sound to Tell Your Story with FLOOR JANSEN

In this episode of The Rock Metal Podcast, we're chatting with Floor Jansen about her new solo album ‘Paragon’ out now.

During our chat we touch on a lot of great tips for musicians, such as finding your sound to tell your story through music.

'Paragon' was produced by Gordon Groothedde of After Forever fame, and Floor Jansen, herself.

For fans of pop and metal alike - Nightwish, After Forever, ReVamp, Northward

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Guest Resource

FloorJansen.com - Connect with Floor!

Guest Music Video

3 Heavy Hitters

1. Demo songs don’t need to be good, they need to get the conversation started to communicate a great song idea

2. Count to 10, have patience, know that you’re good enough

3. Find your own unique sound that says who you are as an artist and take the time necessary to discover yourself

Show Notes // Transcript

Jon Harris: Floor, welcome. Go ahead and say hello to all of our beautiful listeners.

Floor Jansen: Hello, beautiful listeners.

Jon Harris: And a great to have you on – 'Paragon', first solo album. Floor, what was the greatest moment for you producing this record?

Floor Jansen: I guess one of the best moments was while we were writing the first track on the album, which is called 'My Paragon', because we kind of had the puzzle made apart from that song. We really needed something in that line of sounds. We were searching for it. We just didn't really get it. And it was the first song we really had to kind of write out of thin air. Most other songs were , you know, prepared, oh, I have a chorus or I have an idea, but we kind of ran out of ideas, and we wanted to do one last track that would kind of fit the last part, the last piece of a puzzle. And it was quite frustrating to see that it just didn't come. And it didn't come and it didn't come. We took a break, and we didn't get there, and we took another break, and without actually thinking we might just have to drop this, that song wrote itself all of a sudden, as soon as the first ideas came, and there it was, and it finished the puzzle. It was that last piece that we really needed. And even though it fitted so well that it became the opening track, so...

Jon Harris: Wow.

Floor Jansen: There.

Jon Harris: Yeah, absolutely. How did it write itself? Was there something that happened? Like, was it one of those moments where you're out walking and I don't know. There's a stream, so there's running water, there's some psychological trick?

Floor Jansen: No, we were in the studio, so we'd already worked on two other tracks that we did for beforehand, and we went through everything that we written before. Okay, we have this and this, and it would be great if we'd have a track that was a bit more up tempo. And imagine it could be this or that. No special candles with smells. And you know, meditational sessions or just, you know, studio work and trying to get the focus. And funny enough, sometimes when you really focus, you don't get it. We had to let it go enough to sort of get back into it. And there it sort of surfaced out of its out of thin air.

Jon Harris: Wow, yeah, there is the line right there. Let it go enough to get back into it.

Floor Jansen: Yeah.

Jon Harris: Okay. Building the last piece of the puzzle, which is 'My Paragon' first track on the album, having to take those breaks, not actually thinking about the song. And then 'My Paragon' goes and it writes itself. Finishing the puzzle. Floor, what was the biggest challenge for you on the record?

Floor Jansen: That would be finding my sound. I mean, you all probably know me as the singer of Nightwish and maybe ReVamp or Northward, After Forever. All the stuff that I've been doing over the last 20, 25 years, it's all rock and metal. So to do that, once again, was not the challenge. To find a sound of my own that is away from that is how do I sound when I don't have a band behind me blasting and doing something really different or less could be more it's more towards pop-y thing, perhaps it could be more classical or should it be this or should it be that? So it took me a good year and a half, maybe two years to actually really find my sound something that I can say, yes, this fits, and from there we can explore more.

Jon Harris: Wow. Finding your sound that is your own. How do I sound when I don't have a band blasting behind me and taking a good one and a half to two years to find your own individual sound. And I mean, I remember when you hit with 'Energize Me' back in After Forever. I remember watching that music video when it first came out and you've always struck me as somebody who would have large vocal range and capabilities. Is it as a result of being in Nightwish for so long? You've got a habit of singing like you would in Nightwish?

Floor Jansen: Yeah, definitely. I mean, the the approach of music. Yeah. And the diversity that's there for, like, okay, I would like to use it, but sometimes less is more. So even for top guitar players who can do the most complicated solos, if the song doesn't ask for it, you don't do it, even if you can. So in that sense, I can do all kinds of stuff, but where do I implement it? It's the song that does the talking. It has to be good songs. Of course I want to show what I can do because that is sort of also my trademark without it becoming, look at me, look what I can do. Like a showoff album.

Jon Harris: You do do that very well, I'll say that.

Floor Jansen: Haha, thank you. So in that sense, it was a search. How much pop music do I actually listen to? I came to realize that I really don't listen to it much. I knew relatively little of it. So even there, I'm still in a new sort of search for things that I really can enjoy. If you're used to the complexity of Nightwish, then pop songs can be relatively boring, very fast. It's so much more back to basics. So how do I give that a twist that's still me without me thinking of my own songs. Yeah, it's great song, but it's very short. Find my way.

Jon Harris: Yeah, yeah. Something you mentioned earlier on was searching for the sound and finding the sound, and I got it immediately. As soon as I heard the album, the music, the lyrics, even the vocal melodies, everything seemed very connected to this theme of empowerment. Even before I read anything about the record, I said, this sounds like empowerment. I should be fearless. I should go for my dreams. And then I started reading everything. I said, okay, how did they do this? And so it's kind of a big, huge question, but how did you do that?

Floor Jansen: I guess that coincidence is not the way, but it sort of builds. Like it's something that I tell myself and it's something that I want to share to other people. Maybe it's the phase of life I'm in. And some songs became even more empowering to myself afterwards because they were written before I became sick with cancer, for instance, that I felt like, Jesus, this is just what I wanted to hear myself. Yeah, I guess I wanted to leave something into this world that is positive, that is not blind for negative. But yeah, like you say, empowering. There's enough negative news in this world as it is. Open the regular news channel and all they blabber about is the bad. It's very easy to believe that we are the most vicious, evil species on the planet that is doomed to go extinct just because we're so fucking stupid. If you just listen to the news. And it's so far from the truth. It's so far from the actual truth, but it's just a matter of how you put things and how you put them in balance with the good that is actually happening everywhere, every day. But the fact that the world is a much safer and better place than it's ever been throughout history – says a lot about how it was before. But, hey, it's just a matter of looking at it, and there is enough shit, so let's focus on the good instead.

Jon Harris: Enough shit. Let's focus on the good. So the desire to give something positive to the world and in turn becoming your own source of inspiration, which is super cool, as you said, songs became even more empowering after the fact. And going back to developing your own sound, I think this is so crucial, especially for other artists, other musicians who are currently listening in right now, who might be fumbling with the idea of where do I live in the musical world. Was there anything unique that maybe you did in the studio or anyone that you worked with that really helped along the way?

Floor Jansen: For me, it really had to do with who I worked with. So I started working with Gordon Groothedde. I called him because I got the recommendation to do so in the process of where I was in, and I knew him already from the last After Forever album. So he was also the co-producer of that song you mentioned from After Forever, 'Energize Me'. So we worked together for that album, but after that, we sort of went our own ways. We hadn't spoken, like, 13 years. When we called again, I said, I have this idea and I'm working on it, and I seem to just run into walls and, do you think you could help me? And we talked a whole bunch. We had 13 years to catch up. And I told him mostly about what I didn't want, because that's as far as I got. A long list of, yes, something like this, but not that. And not, not, not About a week later, he called me. He said, I have this song that has been in the back of my head ever since we talked. It's a song I already wrote with, and, for somebody else, Ruth Lorenzo, but I think it might just be right up your alley. Just out of inspiration. Could I send it to you? And that was 'Storm'.

Jon Harris: Very cool.

Floor Jansen: And that, for me, was the first after the long list of no's – Yeah! And from there, we could build, yeah.

Jon Harris: Long list of no's to the thing you had mentioned was talking about the album is like a puzzle and putting this puzzle together and that there were some previous ideas, but one of the songs was out of thin air. So was the idea to do an album then kind of ethereal at that moment and then on the phone call this is kind of the first piece to the puzzle to start materializing.

Floor Jansen: Yeah. Actually, yes, yeah. I've been writing before. I've been working on things myself and been working with somebody else who also put a lot of love and energy in it, but also comes from the same angle as I, like, from the metal end. And it just wasn't it yet. And I felt like we can spend another month or two or half year trying things, but I think, well, let's try with somebody else. You never know if it will work or not. Like with Gordon, I had no idea if that would click also on the songwriting. And so he helped me create that first puzzle piece. But from there, I didn't know if we could write songs together. And like, 'Fire' was the first song that we wrote together. Also with Wouter Hardy, who was there. And I was like, okay, yes, I guess we can. So it was very cool to do that, but it's definitely shared effort there where I really needed him as a producer to help me create that sound and where I feel confident as a singer, I have less confidence as a songwriter. Especially in the beginning, I was so uncomfortable with my own shortcomings realizing them that I barely dare to even send ideas.

Jon Harris: Oh, no.

Floor Jansen: Yeah, I have this four chord progression kind of thingy with a melody. I don't dare to send it out.

Jon Harris: Right.

Floor Jansen: But I'm glad I did because from there many other songs started and you need to start somewhere. So that really gave me boost there as well in my confidence.

Jon Harris: Not knowing if you can write songs together. Needing Gordon as a producer to help create your sound, which I'm sure we'll touch a bit more on that as we continue on. Did that help in building your confidence? Knowing you could bring more basic ideas to the table?

Floor Jansen: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because also he also started ideas and would come with recordings on his phone that he said, yeah, it's just an idea to sketch in my head. I have more in my head than you can hear. And then he would play that to me and it's like, I have actually no idea what this is. And he's like, oh, yeah. And then he would get the piano or guitar and then he would play it. Okay, now it starts to make sense. Like, okay, your basic ideas do not really have to be good.

Jon Harris: Hahaha.

Floor Jansen: It just has to make sense to you as a songwriter. And if you then can communicate to somebody else who's like, yes, cool. And get the process starting, that's enough. Unless you have more ideas. Like for instance, 'Daydream', all the main ingredients were there. They were recorded really shitty with me at an untuned guitar somewhere. I wasn't at home. I just had a whole layout for the song, just like that. That's the beauty of songwriting for me, anyway. I know it's for many people, different how it works. I know for Tuomas, for instance, in Nightwish works completely different. He works completely different. But yeah, whatever works.

Jon Harris: Yeah. I mean, ideas on the phone, bringing out the guitar or the piano, basic ideas don't have to be good, other musicians listening in, so long as you can communicate it to someone else and get the whole of things started. And I mean, you even said you had an untuned guitar just trying to get it going.

Jon Harris: What is success to you at this stage of your career?

Floor Jansen: It is a luxury to do what I want to do, not doing something that I must do. And I think that's the ultimate freedom. Yeah. So I guess that would be my answer, because I can you can say, oh, I want to play that big venue, or I want to do that special slot on a festival, but I don't really think in life like that. I feel very grateful for what I can do. And I guess the pandemic, it's not long time ago enough to forget what it was like and it really took away every feeling of taking things for granted. Yes, we were benched for two years and now we're back out and you can't just take these things for granted. And to have the freedom to say, I want to write an album, I want to go on tour, I want to take a break. To have the freedom to do what you feel is good, like, Adele, I know that she does it in a beautiful way. She's really – I want to make good music. I want to really do everything as good as I can. And I will take my time for this. And if I need a three year break to recover, I will do that.

Jon Harris: Right.

Floor Jansen: I like that kind of sense of freedom. It's a massive luxury. And I'm not saying I need a three year break, but I just mean to say to have the freedom to do what I feel is right and what I enjoy doing.

Jon Harris: Yeah, totally. The luxury to do what it is that you want to do. And you even brought up Adele, taking the time you need, having the freedom to do what you need to do after being benched for two years, which is super serious for a lot of musicians. And takes me to an incredible question. What would the Floor today, the Floor that I'm chatting with right now, what would the Floor today have to say to the Floor standing in front of the microphone in the studio recording 'Energize Me'?

Floor Jansen: Yeah, that's a very good one, especially around this album, actually, because paragon means this ultimate goal that I really didn't reach in those years that I was really aiming for. And I was constantly working my ass off to never reach the goals I set myself. So if anything, I would tell her to count to ten and have more patience. It'll come. You're good enough, you don't have to work harder, you don't have to go overboard. Just have patience.

Jon Harris: Yeah, have patience. Setting goals so high that they can't be reached. How familiar does that sound? Anybody? Does that resonate with anybody right now? So count to ten, have more patience. You're good enough. You don't need to work so hard. I mean, obviously work hard. Ain't nothing happens with no work. But don't go crazy. Don't set goals so high that they can't be reached. Now, that kind of takes me to another question Floor. How has working with different producers over the years helped you become a better artist, better performer, better singer?

Floor Jansen: Yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, Gordon really worked as a producer producer. So he helped me find my sound, and together we build things. He helps me to get the right emotion out of my voice. Where with Nightwish, we don't have a producer like that. We have Tuomas writing the songs, and he has a very clear idea of what he wants. He also knows now that he can let certain parts go and let me fill in those gaps from my creativity. And together we build something that really fits the song. So that's a different kind of co-operation where he you could call him the producer, like the the overlord, the mastermind of of everything we do. But, yeah, it's it's a different kind of co-operation really there. So I usually really myself know what I want. And that made it so interesting for the solo stuff to really, once again, so far into my career and having done so many things, try to find something completely new.

Jon Harris: Yeah, you mentioned trying to find something completely new, and you're talking about Gordon helping you find your sound. Coming from a metal background, engaging in pop music, it brings me to just thinking lots of incredibly talented pop singers, obviously they get brushed. Oh, you're just a pop singer. You can't really sing. But the truth is, like, Rihanna can sing, P!nk can sing.

Floor Jansen: Yeah.

Jon Harris: Miley Cyrus can sing. These girls can sing. They do pop music. Don't burn them at the stake for it. Right? That's what they choose to do. That's what we all choose. We all choose to do something. And at the drop of a hat, any of these girls could become a rock singer. And it seems like whatever the next step is for you, because now you're bridging the gap into pop, you've got the metal background. It could really become an incredible endeavour. And I'm super excited to see what it is that you do next Floor.

Floor Jansen: Thank you for that. Well, I hope so. And that was the huge challenge of this. Besides finding my own sound, I don't want to give metal heads the feeling that I'm betraying our kind or doing something, you know metal – It's super proud. It's very authentic. And if it's not metal, it's not cool. For some people, it is like that, but for a lot of people, they are a bit more open minded, but they still need to recognize me in that. So if I would all of a sudden change into some Barbie girl dancing in some red latex outfit onto a beat, that would be like, okay, midlife crisis, much or who's she so I wanted to do something that's still me, and that fits to me. That gives me the opportunity to tell my story through a different kind of song, but still me. Me with a different kind of sound. And that path, apart from just finding the sound, the right image behind it and the right way of communication from my head to the outside world, has been a very powerful path. And something really rarely done, because I want to involve as many people as I can in the right way. I don't want you to be convinced about it. I just want you to feel that it feels like, oh, yeah, that's Floor. Yeah, cool. Whether she sings Nightwish or her solo stuff, it's still floor and that's important for me.

Jon Harris: Okay, well, there it is. Hopefully the Paragon is finally achieved.

Floor Jansen: It is! And that's the thing. That's the most empowering thing about this album. There will always be the next thing. There is always something you can improve about yourself, but if you never take that step back and say, look at where I am, and give that pat on the shoulder and maybe you need cheesy as it might be, look in the mirror and tell yourself, damn, girl, or, damn, dude, you've done well. You may be proud of yourself. That's good. And I've done way too little of that. So that is that little bit of wisdom for this 41 year old that I want to just spread out and hope I can keep doing in many more years to come.

Jon Harris: Yeah, absolutely. And cheers to that. And, yeah, pat yourself on the back, look at yourself in the mirror and say, you know what? You are good enough. You're doing a great job. Maybe work a little bit less, maybe rest and relax just as much as you work. And you can create your own 'Paragon' in your own life. What's the number one thing that you would like people listening to do?

Floor Jansen: I hope that they can kind of lose themselves in this music for a moment. Life goes so fast and there's always so much of everything. So I hope that people can take a moment to just listen to it or to just be in it, maybe even take the booklet in their hand and sing along with the songs. Maybe feel inspired to do the same thing as I said to myself, like, well done. For a minute after listening, feeling so empowered, it's like, God, I'm going to look into my mirror and say to myself, you're awesome. Something like that,

yeah.

Jon Harris: Yeah, I could not agree more. So we chatted about everything today, Floor. Your solo album 'Paragon'. We chatted about working with Gordon, we chatted about finding your own sound, which is so important and so crucial. Other musicians listening in right now. Have you ever stopped and thought, am I playing the right music? And I know it sounds so silly, but what is your own voice? And I've heard countless stories of people changing genres because they have an epiphany. And I'm not saying Floor is changing genres. We already discussed she's not changing genres by any stretch of the imagination. But seriously, it's such a crucial part that I've taken home away from this conversation, is finding your sound to tell your story. Go ahead and head over to TheRockMetalPodcast.ca. There you'll get all the show notes for today, transcripts, music videos, links to connect with Floor. And speaking of which, Floor, thank you so much for coming on to the Rock Metal Podcast today.

Floor Jansen: Thank you for having me. Wonderful chat.

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Friday, March 31, 2023

Finding Your Sound to Tell Your Story with FLOOR JANSEN

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