In this episode of The Rock Metal Podcast, we're chatting with Liz Mauritz of the band Gold Steps about their new EP ‘That Ain't It’ out now via Revival Recordings.
During our chat we touch on a lot of great tips for musicians, such as how works on her songwriting skills, especially when it comes to writing catchy hooks and melodies.
'That Ain't It' was Produced and Recorded by Nick Thompson & Rick King.
The band Gold Steps is for fans of: Thief Club, Avril Lavigne, Chief State, Youth Fountain, Calling All Captains, Driveways.
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Guest Resource
Gold Steps : Revival Recordings - Connect with Gold Steps!
Guest Music Video
3 Heavy Hitters
1. Balance work and play, making sure your relationships aren’t at risk because of the success of a venture.
2. Become a student of songwriting, always looking to improve your skills.
3. What are you trying to say when you’re writing a song? Keep asking, and then drilling down until the story sounds like a lyric.
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Show Notes // Transcript
Jon Harris: All right, Liz, thank you so much for coming on. Go and say Hi to all of our beautiful listeners.
Liz Mauritz: Hello, friends. I'm Liz from Gold Steps.
Jon Harris: Liz, great to have you on - Gold Steps, absolutely freaking fantastic! I get serious Avril Lavigne vibes, and that was a compliment for you. So, so glad to hear that.
Liz Mauritz: I'm glad to hear it, too. I'm glad that's an influence you heard.
Jon Harris: Well, something that you'd mentioned actually, was Avril Lavigne was a serious influence. But first, let's dive into this record, That Ain't it, which was released via Revival Records - Revival Recordings, rather sorry, in 2022, late 2022. What was the greatest moment for you producing this record?
Liz Mauritz: Probably finally checking a couple of boxes of things that I wanted to develop as an artist. Songwriting has been something I've done for many, many years. We had previously written our entire EPs. Like, our first two EPs were completely written by Zach and I and then our band members. I did all the lyrics and vocal melodies. And then we started working with producer Rick King and Nick Thompson, and our songs got better because we had Nick's influence. So all of That Ain't It is co written by Nick Thompson, and so you can hear a lot of his influence on those songs. We started writing parts of that record in 2018, and then as the pandemic hit, and then we were trying to finish this EP up, I was taking more time to sit with myself and come up with hooks and melodies on my own. I've always come up with lots of lyrics, melodies, and creating a catchy hook is where I struggled and where Nick helped kind of guide me spiritually in a lot of ways. And while of my favourite things about That Ain't It is that one box that was checked was I brought a song to them. And for probably the first time, they had only a few tweaks. But the majority of the verse and chorus melody is mine. Straight from the voice memo I recorded it that day. It was one of those moments where you're just in this fit of passion as you're writing, you're feeling something really strong and it just happened to come out really well. And then the second box we checked off was adding synthesizers and writing more of a sad pop song. So that was Gatsby on the record. And that was one I struggled with a lot at first because we knew what we were doing with it. That song probably took the longest to start and finish. But that song was cool because Nick, basically I sent him just like, a huge Google document like a huge Google file drive file of a million different snippets of lyrics and stuff. I had written journal entries just outpourings of whatever crap I was thinking in my head that day. And he took this weird letter thing that I had kind of written almost like an apology to my husband during a really downtime in our band history just not feeling things were going well. And he took that and crafted this beautiful melody for it. So he wrote the melody, sent it to me like the first verse and chorus. I wrote the second verse, I wrote the bridge. And then we finished it out. And in total Nick fashion, he's like, you can go higher on this. So let's just throw in a whole step key change at the end, when I was like, no, I'm already be at the top of my range. I think we're good, Nick. And he was like, now you can do it. We did it. Nick always pushes me in the best way. He takes everything to the next level because he's not afraid to push boundaries with himself. He's been doing this for a long time, so he's very big inspiration for me.
Jon Harris: Very cool. So working with Nick Thompson, which we'll chat about a little bit later, or maybe even entirely throughout this, because I know when an artist works with a great producer, that tends to be, you know, a lot of what went into crafting the record, checking off those boxes, coming in with those voice memos and those Google docs just pouring your heart out. Gatsby took the longest to write and finish, adding synthesizers, making a sad pop song, putting in a key change, working on writing catchy hooks, being guided spiritually to write catchy hooks, so many very cool things that we have going on here. You said that writing catchy hooks was difficult for you and I know that's a bit of a lead in and it doesn't have to be this. We can always touch base back on that question. But what was the biggest challenge for you on this record?
Liz Mauritz: Honestly, coming up with so we parted ways with Rick King during the middle of this record. So we had worked with him on a few of the songs that were singles that came out earlier in 2019. And then during the production of this record, he had to step away for personal reasons. And Rick was interesting to work with in a way because he was very much like, actually, the title of the record is a reference to stuff. He used to say that all the time. He'd be like, that ain't it. We would show him something, we'd be like, no, that ain't it. So it kind of got to be like a running joke where we would just kind of wait for that. We'd be like, oh, man, we're so stoked on this. Rick's going to fucking hate it. So that was kind of like a nod to that, turning that ain't it into something from being like, oh, man, we dread hearing it to being like, that ain't it is kind of more of like a mantra in life. Like, we're trying to put a positive spin on it. But the hardest thing was honestly bringing something that after taking a break for so long between those songs, you feel like you backslide a little bit. So we moved from Austin to Milwaukee as a random aside to throw in here. And so we rebuilt our band with different members. And so trying to find our groove again was really, really hard. And that's where I think a lot of this, like we were finding our sound together in this new foursome and then also trying to bring in the old way of writing. And you have to adapt when you bring new people into a project. And this was the first time that I think we sat and had our drummer and our basis there during the writing sessions. Before that, it had been me, Zach, Brick and Nick. So it was cool to have other people in the room. But getting to that point when we were actually finishing the songs was so difficult because you - you feel like you're hitting a wall and you're like, I have to finish this record. We've been sitting on these songs forever, but nothing I feel like is up to par. So that, I think, was the biggest struggle. It was a huge sigh of relief when the record was finally put out. And I felt like, okay, that chapter is done. And I felt like we left it on the right note that people expect that we're moving in a slightly different direction. So it was a little bit of a tease. There was some old gold step stuff that was reminiscent of our earlier days, and I felt like it left on that gap speed note of, okay, I feel like they're about to take a turn. And we are okay.
Jon Harris: Lots of stuff going on here. That ain't it. We'll call it a Rickism.
Liz Mauritz: A Rickism!
Jon Harris: Yeah. That ain't it. Moving from Austin to Milwaukee, rebuilding the band, having a drummer and a bass player in the room. I've got a few follow up questions.
Liz Mauritz: Sure.
Jon Harris: First follow up question is, how did that change things for you, having additional people in the room to work with and I guess more specifically, what we would call the rhythm section. What was that like, having them in the room?
Liz Mauritz: Ah. For all intents and purposes, I think it was a net positive. Like, so bring one of the fears when you bring in too many cooks they like to call it, is that you're worried that because people are pulling everything in different directions, you just get nowhere with it. Luckily, we have band members who understand that the end result is to make the best song that we can with the material we have. It's not about, oh, well, the bass part isn't interesting enough, so I'm bored, so I hate this song. And that's sometimes where people get I mean, I have vocal lines where I'm, like, feel like, this is kind of too easy, and maybe that's not good. People will think I'm phoning it in when I'm not. It's just that's what's best for the song. And so once you take your ego out of a lot of that stuff, it's great. And having them there to see, like, this is the process. This is what we started with. We always start with some sort of hook idea or melody and build around that as the song transforms. Maybe we find room to do a sick little drum fill here, or maybe we find room to put in a cool solo or something. But we don't set out with that idea in mind of, like, okay, everybody's going to have to get their hell, yeah moment, because that's just not what music is about. Music is about a greater message contained within a three minute. Flop of mishmash instruments and singing, like, you're trying to get something greater across. And I completely empathize with the guys where they want to have stuff that's fun to play, too. And I think that's where a lot of bands get stuck is everybody wants to be the lead in a song and that's sometimes just not what works for the song. So having them there to listen and be like, oh, I totally see how if we were just jamming this out in the basement, I would put like, fills everywhere and then not even understand that I'm completely covering up this really intense, vulnerable lyric line. And so having them there to build the process was really great and it helped us so much more moving forward as we're writing on our own. We did have some moments where we were all sitting around the table trying to write lyrics for Petty and we were incredibly hungover. And there was like a point where we're all just sitting there throwing out words that rhyme with something else in one of the lyrics that we were literally writing word by word. These like, two lines, I think, in the second verse. And I want to say it was probably the most miserable hour of my life. Just being like, I can't think of anything right now, I just want to die. But it was great having them there because people were just pulling up dictionaries, like the sources on their phone and just throwing things out there and we kind of like, cobbled it together and then went back and refined it. But don't drink heavily before you have to write the next day.
Jon Harris: No, no. Not unless, I guess, that's your jive. But no, definitely not. So that was very cool, what was, like, having the rhythm section of the room and you could potentially get nowhere with it, having too many cooks in the kitchen, but they were able to input things. And you mentioned something super important, that a fill is just a fill. It's not meant to be the song, it's a fill. And it's like some things I've learned over the years where you're just like, oh, right, like, a fill is to fill in a gap of space. And it's like musicians don't know that. They don't get that sometimes.
Liz Mauritz: Yeah.
Jon Harris: So that's kind of a funny one, but nevertheless and then helping ideas for lyrics and bringing out dictionaries and just being an ultimate source of inspiration. And you mentioned lyrics, and I wanted to touch on that because the EPK that I got from Revival Recordings says this is a real life autobiographical record. And I've also got some quotes from you here. But I don't need to read your quotes, I've got you here. So what went into the themes on this record? It sounds like maybe it's been boiling for a while or talk to us about the themes on the record.
Liz Mauritz: So as I've gotten older, I've struggled with severe anxiety my whole life, which would lead to depression and stuff. And you can hear a lot of that on our older stuff. This almost like, why do I feel like this all the time? But there's also been themes of anger and stuff like that on this record. There was a lot of things like Stay The Same, for example, was written about friends of ours. We're in our late 20s talking about stuff. You kind of find yourself running into the same wall, and everybody's advice is, well, hey, don't do that again, right? So we had friends coming to us to vent about stuff, and we'd be like, wow, that sucks. I feel like you did that, like two months ago. Maybe don't do that again. Or maybe try this or that. And they'd be like, yeah, that's a great idea. You're right. You're absolutely right. Then they'd go up the next weekend and do the same thing, usually over a relationship kind of thing or drinking too much, whatever. But then I also realized a lot of the advice I was giving is also applicable to myself. Like, you run into your habits, and sometimes we're creatures of habit, we do the same things over and over again, and sometimes we're like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. And then, like, two weeks later, you're like, oh, didn't we just learn this? Hello, brain. What are we doing? And so Stay the Same is as much a reflection of how I feel about myself as it was about these other people. But the other people were initially the inspiration, and then all of a sudden you take a look retrospective and you're like, oh, man, I'm kind of an asshole sometimes too. I should work on changing that. Or maybe I'll do it again and write another song. Front Row was like, kind of a hot dis track to somebody who kind of was like the, hey, I love you and I support you, but I just can't be part of this anymore. I am out. And I'm like, oh, cool, I guess we don't need you anyway. And it was one of those, like, I'm always going to love and support you, and I'm always going to be right there front row for you. And it's like, actually, don't bother. Actually, I hope you're front row someday and you realize what you missed out on. Um, that's in there. Gatsby was about ironically putting our band before our relationship. Zach and I, our guitarists were married. We started Gold Steps together. And so we went through a point where all of a sudden we realized that our relationship and our marriage had taken a complete backseat to everything the band was doing. And I didn't realize how much I had pushed him away with my focus on my brain, just hyper focuses. And I had spent probably months straight of only going to work and doing band stuff and just completely neglected. We'd go out to eat, we'd go on dates, and it would just be all band talk all the time. It's not a good thing. We need to be able to separate things sometimes. But in another way, it's like my other half and we're so connected with this. But yeah, every song on the album is about a specific person or specific incident that sparked this idea for a song. One of my favourite songs that isn't getting a lot of plays on Spotify is a little pretty acoustic track that I wrote for my dad and. Because we are very close. I can't even listen to the song because it kind of makes me cry. But I wrote it for him because when I got married, I couldn't find a father daughter song that really spoke to me. We ended up dancing to a Frank Sinatra song and then Green Day's Good Riddance. Ironically. There you go. He took me to see Green Day when I was a kid. And then so I wrote this song and I was like, maybe this will speak to another girl my age who is close to her dad, who also introduced her to The Breakfast Club and taught her to find the right person in her life. And that it's okay to lose a relationship because what's important is what you learn from it and that sort of thing.
Jon Harris: Yeah. So many sound bites here. And one of the things I kind of want to touch base on because we mentioned early on Avril Lavigne being an influence, I just wanted to touch base on that because the song Front Row, I hope you're there in the front row so you can see what you miss that screams Avril to me. That kind of like, screw you, f-you, look at me, watch me be successful kind of kind of attitude. And I wanted to follow up with saying writing tracks about other people like this. Did you approach that? Did you maybe talk to them and say, hey, I want to write a song about you, and they kind of got their okay. Did you just write it in kind of a vague ish kind of way? Like, how did you approach writing songs about other people?
Liz Mauritz: I don't tell them. I don't think they need to know. If they think it's about them, maybe it'll make them reflect on themselves or if they have no clue, then that's probably good, too. I'm a huge fan of Taylor Swift, and I think that that's where I took a lot of that, like, hey, it's okay to write songs as therapy and get that frustration out. Better than having a screaming match with somebody or fighting with them. And a lot of the same things, they're applicable to multiple people. I think I've told three different people that stay the same wasn't about them. It was about somebody else, but in reality, it was kind of about all of them. Um, sorry I guess I kind of lied to you all because it's inspired by, like. You know, just a general, like, wow, I feel like this is really present in my life. People are constantly coming to me, crying on my shoulder, asking for advice. They want me to be a friend. And then somehow, two weeks later, we're standing around my kitchen counter crying into our beers again. Like, why? But I think told my dad I wrote a song about him, but I was like, it's a good song. It's not a mean, bad song. Hate you, dad. Nothing like that. But I don't think I've told anybody explicitly a song is about them. There is a song we play live that we haven't recorded yet, but we've been playing it for, like, two years, which is very specifically about an ex-boyfriend of mine. Um, and I hope he hears it someday.
Jon Harris: Very cool. Very cool. How would you define success at this stage of your career?
Liz Mauritz: Like, what would I what what are our successes? Or what would constitute success to me?
Jon Harris: Yeah. What would constitute success for you? I know you mentioned something spiritual earlier. I've gotten spiritual responses to this. I've gotten material responses to this. But at this stage of your career and with regard to this release, how would you define success?
Liz Mauritz: I'd like to hit a million plays on one song. We've never been able to accomplish that. I think we're close to 200,000 on Stay the Same, which would be our most played song ever. We recently hit a million plays overall on Spotify, but I think success would be hitting a million on one song. I feel like that's attainable and could happen in the next couple of years. I would love to see our followers go up to, like, 10,000 on Instagram. I guess. I guess that's on a numerical sense, I think as far as success on a personal level and what it means intrinsically to me, I think writing more often where the producer says, that's great. Now let me build everything else around it, but they kind of leave the lyrics and vocal melodies to me because that means that I've grown enough as a songwriter that I don't need all these crazy edits that they're like, that's a banger. And we actually have a song like that that we just recorded out in Massachusetts with Alan Day from Four Years Strong. So this song I've been carrying around in my phone and showing to a very select few people, but I'm so excited about it, I'm not even going to front. I play this song all the time, all day, and I never get sick of it. And that's probably one of the I listen our own music, of course, after it's done, but I don't sit in my car and play that in it on repeat, even though every once in a while I'll be like, oh, we haven't played live in a while. I kind of miss this song. I haven't sang it in a while, and I'll listen to it. But this song is so everything I've wanted to make in a musical way for a while. And it's completely different from I mean, it's not like a country song or anything, but it's just very different in lyrical style, very different in vibe. It's very pop up, very sensual, kind of so it's a little bit different for us. And I think that's why I love it. It's a new baby. A new kind of baby for Gold Steps.
Jon Harris: All right. A new kind of baby for Gold Steps. Something you mentioned was working with a producer where he says, that's great, let's build around that. But the core of it stays the same. Working with Nick Thompson. Kind of talk to us about that a bit more. What was that like? Or what were your favourite moments with working with him?
Liz Mauritz: Nick is really great at pulling things out of you that you didn't know were there. Like, the first time I met him, I was a little nervous because he's the singer of one of my favourite bands of all time. I thought he was super cool. He's just a dork like the rest of us. A very cool dork, but a dork nonetheless. And we were sitting there and we had brought this song in that basically Under Attack turned into a totally different song. But he was sitting there and he was like, okay, so here's the lyrics. Here's kind of this melody you've shown me. What are you trying to say with this song? What's inside right now? What's fuelling this? And so we basically had a conversation. He was like, cool. How would you write that in a lyric? And then we would sit there and go line by line. And then as we were working together, I was getting a bigger feel for the song because of how he was kind of directing the conversation about it. So all of our songs when we've been working with Nick, when we went to a writing session, it basically was like starting from scratch and just kind of pulling these ideas and getting them out on paper. When we wrote Empty Space, it was the same thing. I was like, my grandfather passed away recently. It was really hard on my grandmother. Their relationship was inspiring to me, the kind of relationship I wanted to find in my life. And it hit me really hard because I had just gotten engaged when he passed away. So we sat there and wrote this song from the perspective of what it feels like to lose that other half of your life. And we just sat through and worked it out together. So writing with Nick, I almost prefer to write with him from scratch for that reason because he has a really great way a really great way of just making it a conversation, and then all of a sudden you realize you've written half a song together. So that's what I love about working with Nick. He's also really great at taking a melody that's kind of basic and adding these little pops of flavour to it, like, oh, let's shift this note. Jump up a little bit, or, let's kind of pull this back down. And he was really good at that. I think he's for some reason, we just connected really well. I felt like he knew me, and maybe he writes like that with everybody because he's just a really good songwriter. But that was my favourite part about working with him, is I felt like I could be completely open and vulnerable with him, and he never was, like, that's stupid. I mean, not that most producers would, but I can imagine some people out there that are like, you suck at this. Let me just take the reins on this.
Jon Harris: Yeah, you call yourself a musician? Okay. Anyway, don't worry. We know what to do with you. Yeah, very cool. What's the number one thing you want people listening to do right now? Is that hit up your socials to increase those Instagram numbers, listen to the record. Where should they go? What should they do? What's the number one thing do you want listeners to do?
Liz Mauritz: Number one thing, please go listen to the record and follow us on Spotify. If you're listening to a band regularly, just go ahead and follow them. It'll let you know when they've got new music coming out, when they update stuff, it looks really good. When it's not just streams, but it's actually people following because that means they care enough. They want to hear what's coming next. I guess that would be my number one thing a lot of people follow on Instagram, and I don't know if they even listen to our music. Maybe they just think we're silly. I don't know.
Jon Harris: Well, that brings up really good point, and I'm glad that you mentioned it. There are so many tools for bands to connect with fans where you are intersecting, where they're listening to your music. So connecting with people on Spotify is super crucial. My own humble opinion, I'd rather spend time on Spotify connecting with fans who are listening to music than, I don't know, thinking we're doing silly stuff on Instagram. It's all silly to me anyway. But nevertheless, check out that record from Gold Steps. That Ain't it. Via Revival recordings. Go ahead and go to TheRockMetalPodcast.ca. There you can go ahead and get the show notes for today music videos transcript, all the extra love and goodies. Thank you so much for coming on to The Rock Metal Podcast today, Liz.
Liz Mauritz: Thanks for having me.
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